Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutSubdivision-Conservation JAN 2 8 1983 ' TOWN OF SOUTH WINDSOR INLAND WETLANDS AND WATER COURSES APPLICATION INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY ACTION THIS APPLICATION SHALL BE RECEIVED BY THE INLAND WETLANDS AGENCY AT THE REGULAR- 220 LY SCHEDULED MEETING ON THE SECOND MON- APPLICATION NO. DAY OF THE MONTH AT THE TOWN HALL. RECEIVED DATE — — THIS APPLICATION MUST BE FILED IN TRIPLICATE PUBLIC HEARING DATE AT THE OFFICE OF THE TOWN CLERK TOWN OF (if necessary) SOUTH WINDSOR, AT LEAST TEN DAYS PRIOR TO COMPLETED APPLICATION THE REGULAR MEETING DATE. PERMIT GRANTED DATE A SET OF PLANS MUST BE SUBMITTED TO THE tiJ TOWN ENGINEER AT LEAST TEN DAYS PRIOR TO PERMIT DENIED DATE / 3 THE REGULAR MEETING DATE. 3 83 PLEASE PRINT. 1. APPLICANT TEL. NO. ADDRESS ;71/00. CITY & STATE a� c f/ � � �,�/�,✓7 2. OWNER �i�� �/� /1J® TEL. NO. �j 4�/ . ADDRESS 32- CITY & STATE 3. LOCATION OF PROPERTY �S (' NAMES OF ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS STATE CLEARLY AND BRIEFLY \ 5. PURPOSES AND DESCRIPTION OF THE PROPOSED ACTIVITY,AND THE TIME ELEMENT INVOLVED: ATTENTION: THE APPLICANT UNDERSTANDS THAT THIS APPLICATION IS TO BE CONSIDERED COMPLETE ONLY WHEN ALL INFORMATION & DOCUMENTS REQUIRED BY THE AGENCY HAVE BEEN SUBMITTED. APPROVAL MAY ALSO BE NECESSARY FROM THE PLANNING AND ZONING COM- MISSION. <D AND It AN APPLI CATII ON FEE IS REQUIRED. CONSULT THE REGULATIONS. A SIGN IS REQUIRED. CONS T :HeGUI,ATI SIGNED: ( %ppitcant) �A ( ner) Revised 9/20/82 - April 8, 1983 I , Corinne H. Murray, do hereby certify that the following is a true and accurate verbatim transcript of the application presentation and review at the regular meeting which was held by the Inland Wetlands Agency of the Town of South Windsor on February 14•, 1983, in connection with Application NO. 220, Uccello and Ireland Builders , Inc . , Developer; and Philip Ireland, Owner, for a 28 - Lot Residential Subdivision with retention basin, on approximately 39 acres of land bisected north and south by Connecticut Light and Power Company property, and bounded on the north by abutting property owners, Windshire Abbe Estates, Ltd. , Joseph M. & Albina C . Riester, and Ethel B. Littlefield; on the west by abutting property owners, Hedwina & William Sluskanis; on the south by abutting property owners, Jack & Leo Leichtner (Estate) , Allen & Ronnie C . Tenenbaum, Richard N. & Lee H. Backman, Robert R. & Gale Horne, David A. & Mary Ann Beaver and Merle T. Steane; on the east by abutting property owners, Michael & Sharon Lee Cortin, Harold H. & April C . Teveris, Thomas R. Lavoie , Conrad R. andMarguerite Cormier, Craig & Eileen Keefer, Kyle F. & Adelaide Zimmer and Marshall Beanlieu; and Ellington Road, South Windsor, Connecticut. Members present and voting unanimously at the meeting were the following: Constance Eriksson, Elizabeth Warren, Jeremiah O'Sullivan, Thaddeus Gutkowski , Calvin Lane , John Moran and Joseph Krahula. r Corinne H. Murray, Record' g Secretary for the Inland Wetlands Agency Town of South Windsor - 1 - Constance Eriksson, Chairman Application NO. 220, Uccello and Ireland Builders . Phil Ireland, Jr. Mrs . Chairman, ladies and gentlemen of the Commission, my name is Phil Ireland, Jr. . I represent Uccello and Ireland Builders , and uh, we ' re here tonight to present to you a new application. As you recall, we 're in to the Commission with the prior submission and as a result some new information, and some deal- ings with the Soil Conservation Commission, we 've made some modifica- tions i tions to our plans, and wer feel that we can address some of the (unintelligible - paper rattling) problem areas that they have dis- cussed in their review letter. At this time , I ' d like to give your over to Jim Luzzi , Luzzi Engineering, to explain what we 've done with the new submission. Jim Luzzi My name is Jim Luzzi , Luzzi Engineering, Surveyors. Basical- ly the road layout and the lot layout is the same as the application we submitted prior to this , we withdrew. I just would like to quickly go over the major changes that were made between this plan and the plan that was submitted earlier. One is that we eliminated one lot up in this , at the cul-de-sac . So , we originally had an application of 29 lots. This application has a total of 28 lots. Another item that was changed is that we reduced these three lots down to the , the uh, 30, 000 sq. ft. If you remember last time , these lotswere almost double , double the size of the zone . (Cough) Excuse me, which leaves a large open space behind these lots and adjacent to those lots , which was not there be- fore. We also took this , this area here , and left this whole area as open space , which will be developed in anyway, and will not be part of any of the lots. Uh, still these lots , uh, which a_ large portion of the lots are within the wetlands, still range in area from 61,000 , 66, 000, 72, 000 , 51 ,000. I think the smallest lot we show in that, on this sec- tion of the subdivision is 37,000 sq. ft. Calvin Lane Could I interrupt for just a moment? 2 - Lane It would help •us , I think, if you would just delineate again, the inland wetland area, that 's a little hard for me to determine what you are talking about on the . . . Luzzi This line , take this heavy line here . . . Lane Yeah. Luzzi This line right through here is the wetlands minus this knoll that' s in the middle of it, there ' s a knoll that comes. . . . Lane Alright, so that ' s (Unintelligible) area there is wetlands, except for that -- OK. Eriksson The rest is . . . . Luzzi So this piece here is not wetland, this area is a wetland. Eriksson And the rest of it is . Luzzi If you take this line now, follow it down to here and move it like -- like that . . . . Lane OK, Alright. - Luzzi This area is a wetlands minus the knoll . Lane Yeah, Ok. Luzzi And minus this corner. . . . Lane Yup, Alright. Luzzi . . . in the back. Thaddeus Gutkowski So those three lots are entirely in the wetlands? Luzzi So , these three lots , which on the original application were in wetlands , are again within the wetlands. We did -- one other item that was changed from the original application, we took this road and shifted it fifty feet to the north. Last time it was , it came down -- like -- the southern street line used to be our northern street line , we took it and shifted it as far to the north as possible . OK, as I was say- ing before , these lots are ,many of them are double the lot area require- ment for this zone . The smallest lot in this area right through here _ 3 _ being 37,000 sq. ft. , which is 7 , 000 sq.ft. more than the minimum required lot. These lots , as I already mentioned, are - two of them are 30 , 000 sq. ft. , this one ' s 35,000 sq. ft. and these lotsup through here are 30, 000 sq. ft. As a result of our last application and get- ting some input from this Commission, and also uh, the input that was supplied to us from the Soil Conservation Commission, we have revised the plan. We (Unintelligible) met with Soil Conservation Commission. They are basically satisfied with our plan, with the exception of these three lots . Here again -- uh -- they're saying that those are entirely within wetlands -- um -- and therefore -- uh -- they feel that-- that it may not , it probably should not be developed. We 're here tonight asking that becsuse that' sentirely within the wetlands-- uh-- we 're asking permission to develope these three lots . We are asking that based on our soil scientist' s investigation of this wetlands. Uh -- If you remember the application that was submitted originally, plus thisapplication, we did submit a report from Henry Moeller. His report stated that -- that uh -- the building that would be taking place on these three lots , plus the driveways across the wetlands , would not have an adverse affect on the wetlands,and again, that he felt the major wetlands in the area was this piece of wetlands , which is on our northern border, which we are proposing to stay entirely out of, and thatthese smaller wetlands areas , and the amount of work that we are proposing, would not affect -- uh -- the wetlands , the wetlands. We have shown an increased amount of fill with each lot because of our last discussion -- we talked about maintaining a rear lot, which would not be in the wetlands, but would, would be filled area. So, what we have shown on the grading plan here-- each -- each house has ap- proximately fifty feet -- forty to fifty feet to the rear of it that we are proposing to fill also . We 're also showing the fill that would / - ),'. - be required -- uh -- for the -- for the driveways , or the access to each lot. We have basically designed this lot , Lot # 9, as a rear lot, although zoning regulations do not allow rear lots in South Windsor. What we have done is we have maintained this part of the lot -- the required frontage on the street -- we have taken a small area out of it, which is shown in the hash mark line (Cough) . We have labeled that reserve for conservation easement to ensure that no construction will take place on this lot within the wetlands. The only construction that would take place would be the construction of the driveway across this small piece of wetlands right here , and we 're proposing to put a cross culvert under the pipe, so that the flow that comes down through here will continue to move towards this, this stream over here . We have also added the retention pond shown on this -- on Section"A" fo the proposal . We 've shown location of it, we 've shown an easement around it. It ' s designed in a fashion that it would be used as a sedimenta- tion pond. That goes for the pond in Parcel "A" and the pond in Parcel "B" . What we would like to ask -- we feel that since there is such a small amount of runoff coming from this section of the devel- opment because everything from -- from this line approximately right here is flowing down into this retentionpond, so the runoff that would be coming from this road is a very small amount of runoff and it' s flow- into a very, very large natural retention area (cough) . We would like to get this application approved without doing this construction simply because that construction, we feel , would be more detrimental to the wetlands than if we didn't do anything in there. That -- as you -- as you can see, that construction of the retention pond falls entirely within wetlands. Eriksson So you're saying, you don' t want to build that at all, you would prefer not to build it at all? _ 5 _ Luzzi We feel that -- that uh -- it would probably be more detrimental to the wetlands than if we didn' t build it. We have shown it, we can build it, and it -- and it will function properly -- um -- and if this commission would rather see the retentionpond, we would -- we would be more than happy to put it in. We would request that, and we do feel that -- that uh -- the amount of increased runoff from this -- from this strom drainage system right here (cough) would be negligible compared to the -- to the large natural storage area located to the north of us. _ Uh - we 've added a note that the haybales will be installed along the wetlands in . the areas of construction,as. directed by the Town, and it be installed in accordance with the uh -- the Soils Conservation Commission Handbook. A detail of typical haybale installation -- we 've also shown a typical detail of the way the retention ponds will be designed (Cough) . We 'll maintain a depth of two feet of water within each pondduring construction, so that the sediment will settle out. These ponds will be cleaned periodically. At the end of construction and after all the vegetation has been reestablished -- uh -- these span pipes located on the outlet pipes will be removed and the pond will then begin to function as a retention pond. Um -- we 've shown location of the test pits -- uh-- the amount of fill that we are requesting to place within the wetlands. Other than that , I 'd be happy to answer any ques- tions the Commission has at this time . Lane How much fill will you be bringing in on those three lots that are in--- the lots that you reduced down? Luzzi In these three lots right here? Well , I didn' tbreak that out separately, I got it overall , but I could give you -- it ' s approximately a four-foot depth of fill -- um -- in an area of 50 X 50 on each lot, so without a calculator I can' t give you that (Unintelligible-papers rattling) - 6 - but that ' s approximately what it is. This is slightly more than four feet, this one is approximately four feet, this is slightly less than four feet. A. B. Davies One hundred yards per foot. Luzzi Pardon? Davies One hundred yards per foot. Luzzi One hundred yards per foot? You're talking approximately two hundred yards average , well , excuse me , I 'm saying two hundred yards , you have to subtract the basement out of that -- out of that area -- the basement area. (Unintelligible - more than one person talking at once) Luzzi We did submit a list. Elizabeth Warren It ' s with the application -- right behind it, a couple of pages. Thirty-three hundred cubic yards total? Luzzi (Unintelligible - papres rattling) Lots 6 - 7 - 8. Warren Four-twenty-five , six-sixty and nine-seventy. Luzzi (Unintelligible) submitted this about a month ago . Lane Well -- I guess to -- to (Unintelligible) my question -- just to ask whether this will significantly alter the drainage -- uh -- patterns in that area. Luzzi No , this -- this drainage pattern will continue to flow in a southwest direction from theselots. We will be draining these driveways because the driveways will be putched back to the street, the driveways will drain into the street and into the storm drain system, and then into the retention area. Lane That ' s what I wanted to find out. Luzzi But as far as any of the -- the overland flow here -- uh -- we will not change it due to the construction of these lots. There will be - 7 - There will be -- because of the construction of this road -- and you have a drainage pattern coming this way -- we will be intercepting some of this drainage that -- that comes down here and discharges into the stream. We will be intercepting that in the street system and discharg- ing it into the retention ponds. Eriksson Um -- Did you stake the center line of the new road? Luzzi Yes , the center line of the new road was staked -- uh, we -- we staked the old center line before the last meeting and then it was -- I believe you had restaked it out in the field -- uh -- approximately a month ago. Eriksson Has SCS actually seen the revised plans? Luzzi This plan, yes . We sat down with the old plan marked up with their comments. We then came back with this plan and submitted it to themfor their review, prior to submitting it to you, and as I said the -- the only comment they had at that point, they felt we handled every- thing else in their comments and they were satisfied with that, but they did say that those three lots are totally within the wetlands and . . . . Eriksson The reason I ask is we -- the first time we received a writ- ten report, we have not received anything from them, that ' s why I won- dered if they had reviewed the revised one . Luzzi Well , I think that we submitted to them to get their input. I don' t know if they would supply you with a written report at that point. Eriksson I -- Yeah -- OK -- Well it is easy wnough to request one -- Um --That detention basin that we 're discussing, on the northern section? Luzzi This pond up here? Eriksson Uh -- If I am reading the map correctly, at least a portion of that detention basin is located in land that, I don't know, -- it -- 8 - It 's the Engineering Department, or Planning and Zoning, or the Town, someone has the right to have control over that, am I correct? Davies They would anyway, because you're taking Town drainage. Luzzi Right, This would be -- if you notice we (UNintelligible - room noise) drainage easement which comes down the outlet pipe -- twenty-foot drainage easement, and then it' s 110 X 120 drainage easement right around the pond that would go to the Town. Eriksson Included -- well sometimes , you know -- that drainage pond, or whatever, is owned by the property owners, or whatever, it doesn' t always go to the Town. Davies This one should. Eriksson That ' s my point, it should, if and when it ' s built. I don' t know where , but somewhere there are existing drainage pipes located on land that ' s already been built. Luzzi You're talking about off of Ellington Road? Eriksson Yeah -- and I think in the -- yeah -- around in there some- where . Luzzi OK. The subdivision -- we show this drainag swale which cuts , it ' s actually (UNintelligible - coughing) that was made across this Connecticut Light and Power property -- that' s their property. When this subdivision was developed, the discharge was -- was -- the pipes discharged to the north and there was no place for the water to go because this was a higher piece of land here and they excavated a ditch, which is quite deep at this point going through the Connecticut Light and Power pro- perty. Eriksson I 'm under the impression that there are drainage pipes some- where there. Luzzi There is a drainage pipe that ends right here coming from this _ g _ subdivision, and there is an open channel flow that comes down and through this way. There ' s also some drainage pipes which come off of Ellington Road -- Uh -- here . Davies (Unintelligible) State. drainage system. Luzzi . . . . .which discharges right at this point here . On our original plan, we show these lots coming to the rear, with an easement -- drainage easement coming from this point down into this area here. Now what we have shown, these are the rear property lines , right here , and this is going to be part of the open space. Eriksson OK, so you're not -- the lots are not really impacting the drainage pipes now, but they were , or could of originally. Luzzi No , they won' t be , and again, with our discussions with the Engineering Department -- there is a fifty-foot right-of-way here , that will be given to the-Town also , as part of the -- Uh --subdivision application. So , if there ' s any drainage that wants -- that the Town would want installed in this location, they would have an outlet. Davies (Unintelligible) Eriksson Whose idea are the cul-de-sacs , is that Engineering, or is that your own? Luzzi This cul-de-sac? Eriksson Uh -- well -- all of them. Luzzi Or these? Eriksson Those actually. Luzzi Well basically what happened is back when the zone change was permitted on this piece of property, at that point there was a restric- tion, or I 'M not sure if it was a restriction, but at that point the Planning and Zoning Commission said they do not want another entrance , - 10 - not to Ellington Road at this point, so , that only left one entrance to the property, and that was from down here. Because of the shape of the property, there ' s no other way you can bring a road in and out. Again, discussing the property with the Engineering Department, there is a subdivision proposed to the north of us . This road basically lines up with the proposed road there . So , this is a temporary cul-de-sac . Eriksson OK. Luzzi And again, because of the shape of the property and the . . . (Continued to talk while tape was being turned) . . . .with lots located to the south on the property. Eriksson Does -- Uh -- Mr. Ireland and Mr. Uccello own the land to the south there also? Luzzi This land? This is all developed already. Eriksson All developed, I 'm sorry. Davies Sand Hill Estates. Jeremiah O 'Sullivan It ' s what? Davies Sand Hill Estates . Luzzi This piece of property is surrounded by developed land starting at this point, these are all lots that are built on already, all the way. Eriksson Then I -- then I 'm afraid I don' t understand the point -- what ' s the point of the cul-de-sac if that property is already developed? Luzzi These cul-de-sacs? . Eriksson Yeah. Luzzi These cul-de-sacs have lots off them. Eriksson Oh. Luzzi --See-- which are away from the wetlands -- this cul-de-sac . . . . Eriksson It ' s just to give you access to more lots then, really. Luzzi Yeah, this cul-de-sac will be extended at a fut ure date . - 11 - Erikssoh. Any other wuestions from members? John Moran Then no fill is required for any part of the -roadway. Luzzi Yes, we have shown it on the plan in the upper right hand corner. Roadway construction is a total of 4, 010 cu. yds. Moran That changed much from the original one before? Luzzi No , no. Moran About the same? Luzzi Just about the same . Moran OK. Luzzi As I said, we moved this road further to the north fifty feet . 1e still left it in -- in the wetlands , but what it did, it gave access to the lots without affecting the wetlands. It pushed -- the road construction fell right on the edge of the wetlands rather than fifty feet into the wetlands. Eriksson Other questions , comments? Bo? Anyone else? Ok, I thank you for your presentation. We 'll mull it over. Warren Oh, I do have a question. When you're coming in, what will -- where will that intersect with Lake Street. Is it that close to (Voices in background - unintelligible) . Luzzi Well , Abby Road Extension has presently been built -- Uh --- as part of a subdivision that was approved directly to the north of us. Warren Abbe Windshire , or whatever they call it? Davies Windshire Estates. Luzzi What we are proposing to do is to continue right where the left turn is. We would continue and extend Abby Road straight down to this point, and we would do the same thing, make a left and come in. Warren I 'm not sure I follow you, what -- Davies You know how Windshire makes a left? Warren Pardon? Davies You know how Windshire makes a left? - 12 - Warren Oh, yes. OK. Davies Same thing, six-hundred feet further south. Luzzi Basically the subdivision approved to the north of us (Unintelli- gible - papers rattling) Abby Road at this point , then it comes in. . . . Warren Ummmm. Luzzi . . . . .into that subdivision. What we are proposing to do is from this point, extend it in a southerly direction down to our intersection. Davies The road fig ures about six-hundred feet south of W'indshire Drive or whatever it is. Warren Can I get south -- wait a minute -- Davies Half way between where the sun rises and sets . Eriksson I don' t know to whom I should address this , but I -- it was just brought to my attention, there is another slight problem, financial. There is a fifty dollar application fee that is still outstanding on this. k Phil Ireland, Jr. Ok, that was one question I was going to ask. I had talked with Mrs. Murray on that last week and she was going to get in touch with you on that and clarify the question. I 'm prepared to give you the check if it' s required, now, but what I did ask, in our discus- sion, whether the former application, or the fee , would be rebated, or applied to this application, and since I didn' t talk to her prior to this meeting, we really didn't clarify that. So , I can give you the fee at this time . Eriksson Um -- OK -- My interpretation,and you're more than welcome to discuss it with the Agency, is that each application requires a fee, and the fact that you withdraw was of your choosing. We don' t rebate fees. You know, once we receive them, they're turned over to the Town funds and we really haveno access to them and it was -- you know -- you're option to withdraw and resubmit , and each application requires an application fee . That ' s my interpretation. _ - 13 - Ireland Fine . Luzzi or Ireland (Unintelligible) . . . . . talking to the right person. Laughter - difficult to tell who spoke) Eriksson I noticed you backed right off that one . (Laughter. ) Ireland We can give you the -- uh--- Eriksson OK, Than (End of the Presentation Portion Pertaining to Application NO. 220- Uccello and Ireland Builders , Inc. ) - 14 (WORKSESSION PORTION OF FEBRUARY 14, 1983 REGULAR MEETING PERTAINING TO APPLICATION NO. 220 BY UCCELLO AND IRELAND BUILDERS, INC. ) Eriksson OK, now we get into the heavy--Uccello and Ireland Builders. I 'll say my piece and then I 'll shut up and let you guys hash it out. My feeling about this is that I still don' t think they're anywhere near ready for approval. They have a lot of work to do and a long way to go and I think -- I think they are pushing. Gutkowski I can't see how you can approve three lots (Unintelligible - noise) I mean, you know. . . . Eriksson You know, they're so Gung Ho to get this thing approved and they just -- they're hitting their heads against the wall. They're not listening. They're not getting the message. Lane Soil Conservation . . . . . Unidentified voice (Unintelligible) . .that bother you Bo? O'Sullivan Seven thousand cubic yards of fill. . . . Warren Seven, including the roadway, yeah. Davies Four thousand tons. Warren What does that compute in truckloads type thing? O'Sullivan What do you get -- three yards in a truck? Lane That much? Three yards in a truck? Unidentifiable Voice Cubic yards? Gutkowski Three yards in a truck? (Unintelligible - Members speaking at once. ) Moran (Unintelligible) . . a ten wheeler. O'Sullivan Seven hundred trucks. Gutkowski Seven hundred trucks, yes. Moran If you have the trailer. Davies Three thousand pounds per yard. - 15 - Gutkowski That'll help the roads out there pretty good. That'll settle things (Laughter) . .Pack it down. Eriksson I had talked -- Bo was away, so I had talked to Buck during the week, last week, about this, and he gave me a few comments to ask, but his basic premise was, as far as he was concerned, it' s still almost a conceptual plan. There is just not enough information there to get any meat out of -- they haven't really, you know. . . . . . Gutkowski Well aren't you -- aren't you nervous that -- Uh -- they've already had another commission -- Ummmm -- concerned about those three lots? Eriksson Oh, SCS, you . . . . Gutko wski SCS rather, yeah. Eriksson Sure, yeah, and then they (Unintelligible - paper rattling) Lane What about the detention basin, they claim to build would upset the -- the ecological balance so to speak, and what, how do you feel about that Bo? I don't know the property. I know where it is, that' s about all. Davies This property has a ten-foot change in the elevation through the property and for them to , my own impression, to put that detention basin in there , it would do just what they're saying. Lane Yeah. I 'm taking it at face value. Davies Uh, Windshire Abbe just north of there, part of this open space will abut that -- Uh -- there 's only four feet across that detention basin. To put in another piece of deterntion for us to take care of is excess (Unintelligible) . Lane Yeah. Ok. Gutkowski Bo, I 'm trying to remember, having walked over there, isn't - 16 - that area in question, just behind that (Unintelligible) . . to me it looked as though there was tremendous potential for a decent pond, be- cause there is an outlet. Davies That lower area, some of their area and Windshire Abbe is (Unintelligible - papers rattling) , that cross hedge. Gutkowski Conceptually, if they came up with something that they did over off of Lake Street, those ponds are beautiful. That's one of the nicest things in Town, and yet, when I looked over there I said, you know, isn't that what they could do there? Wouldn't they solve a lot of problems -- I mean-- I 'm not telling them their business, but. . . . ` Davies To get a pond to be viable., or working -- Uh -- it should be six, eight, ten twelve feet deep. Gutkowski . . . . feet deep, yeah. Davies Type of thing so you get the water movement -- Uh -- the tempera- ture change -- you don't get the green slime algae working during the summer, and I don' t think they have the elevation to work that. Gutkowski Ok. Yup, but it would be -- it would be a lovely -- that concept turned out, to my mind, one of the most beautiful. . . Eriksson And then you have a lot less intense development. A half a dozen houses in there would not be necessarily bad, but what -- fifteen lots, or whatever? Gutkowski That 's exactly what I was -- not that it isn' t developable, but are they trying to put too much on, you know -- Davies I understand what Buck is saying and I have my own opinions about the site and whatever -- Uh -- I guess, really, what they are looking for is a Wetlands Commission feeling, or decision. . . Gutkowski Decision. . . . Davies . . . .can they develop it? - Gutkowski Well certainly some of it. . Davies It is not for you to say how many lots. Gutkowski Yeah, no , certainly some of it is developable and it would be wrong to not allow a property owner to develope a portion of his land that is. My concern is the density of what they're pro- posing. Davies Well that' s -- SCS and Jim Luzzi flagged those three lots, and I -- Uh -- in that Phase "B" , which would be the first one coming through, there was only nine lots in the whole thing, or eight lots, three of them got a red flag on them already. It's too bad they have to go through there to get into the other. Gutkowski Yeah. Lane Soil- Conservation is uaually, fairly conservative in what they suggest and when they say Lot six, seven and eight should not be de- veloped, I think we should pay close attention. Eriksson They very seldom take that kind of stand. They usually skirt the issue. Lane Yeah, they do. . Eriksson When they come right out and say you should not do something, you know that they are serious. Gutkowski I think -- I think that certainly our hope should be to continue the good development that's going on over there, because even- tually it will be land that is developed,and is. My personal feelings are that the development that' s going on in that area is nothing but a tremendous asset to this Town. Davies Don't forget, tow different people. Gutkowski Yeah, I know, that 's why I wouldn't want to see -- Uh -- Davies It' s not to say one ' s good and one 's bad. - 18 - Gutkowski No, no , I understand, I hear what you're saying. O'Sullivan The drainage from that area runs down in the brook and-- and into those ponds that run along Lake Street, isn' t that so? Davies No. O'Sullivan It doesn't? Which way does it go? It goes north? Davies It goes westerly right towards the High School, towards Ayers Road. Remember last summer when they were working on those ditches through the swales to the north end of the cultivated area? Warren Yeah, that' s right, didn' t they run a. . . . . Davies . . . .That was Kelley, or Windshire. Warren Yeah, right, they ran a -- not a -- sewer line? Davies No , they cleaned a brook out and made it so it carried the water correctly. Warren Uh -- Huh. Davies One other gentleman was having flooding problems everytime we had a shower. O'Sullivan Where on the map, Bo? Eriksson You want (Unintelligible) . Gutkowski I don' t like the way it' s designed. I think it' s too in- tense. I just think they are trying to put too much in land that's not suitable for it. I 'm not -- as I agree with Bo --I '.m not saying you can' t build something in there, but I think what they are proposing is unreasonable. Gutkowski Too high density. Eriksson Too high density, and I don't think they're listening, you know, but you weren' t here , but they came in with the first proposal and all they've done is eliminate one lot, and I think combined two to make one. - 19 - That' s a drop in the bucket. They've moved the (Unintelligible) . Warren They did two. Eriksson They really didn't change their basic -- they put in the detention basin, that wasn't there. Warren Right, they also adjusted those lots where they said that peo- ple wanted them in their wild state, or something, which meant swamp. They adjusted those somehow, they made them sm aller. Eriksson They made them smaller. Warren Yes. Eriksson . . . and pulled them out of what would be open space. Warren Yes , right, left it open space. Eriksson I still think they're trying to put too much in a too sensitive area -- my feeling -- I don' t know what the answer is, but I don't think this is it. But, I don' t think we ought to be drawing plans for them, either. You know, it 'sahard situation, you don' t wnat to tell them what to do , but you don' t wnat -- you dontt wart to keep going 'round and 'round either. That' s not accomplishing anything. O'Sullivan In Moeller' s report -- Uh -- He claims , and I just can't accept it, that the filling isn't going to have a big impact on the drainage . . . . . Eriksson (Speaking at the same time) I know, I can't buy that either. O'Sullivan . . . .the water runoff and I just don' t understand that. All those houses in land that' s so wet has to have a significant impact on the rate and the amount of water. Lane Displacing swamp water too, the water' s got to go someplace. O'Sullivan That' s rightl I mean, under each of those houses, he talked about four feet of fill in a 50 X 50 foot area. That displaces a lot 20 - of -- Uh -- land that could retain some water. It's gonna run off a whole lot faster. Eriksson I don't know, how does this fly by you? Maybe to write them a letter saying that we feel that the dense -- that it' s of too intense .development as proposed, and we object to the building of those three lots -- the three lots that are. . . . . O 'Sullivan I think if we say that, they'll just say, well maybe we 'll cut out those three lots and come back with the rest, and I don' t think that would be an acceptable plan either. Davies I think Jerry's comments -- Uh -- the impact on the wetlands is too great. Eriksson And let them, from there , decide what they want to do. Davies And suggest that -- Uh -- either they reduce the number of lots or the development within the inland wetlands area proper, or something like that. Eriksson Let them decide how they are going to do it. Davies I think Jerry had more -- Uh -- (Unintelligible) . .as opposed to this thing -- Uh -- it' s too dense. Eriksson (Unintelligible) Yeah, you're right. The impact on the wet- land is too great? Davies Or words to that effect. O 'Sullivan I mean, we would like zero increase in runoff, and I don' t think you are going to see that with that kind of development. Eriksson That's true, they should be aiming for that. O'Sullivan Yeah. Eriksson Approaching it. O'Sullivan Now Moeller claims that a lot of the swales up there are -- they don't collect the water, the water tends to runoff anyway, but if you've taken away a lot of that space by putting all the fill in, it's 21 - going to run off much faster. Davies Well you're going to change the drainage pattern anyway in the fact that any construction in there -- it's had thirty years, or fifty years, one hundred years of leaf -- of leaves dropping, and -- Uh -- decomposing, and they form some sort of a skin across the surface. If you get. a decent rain, it never has a chance to go in. You put some houses in there, you're goingto get -- or any sort of construction, will change the soil characteristics. O'Sullivan Yeah, I think that there is too beg an impact on the wetland and also the downstream drainage from the wetland. Davies We can take care of that. O'Sullivan What' s that? Davies Downstream. Gutkowski What is the downflow eventually, Bo? Davies It goes under the culvert there across from the High School, right by Ayers Road and goes down into Plum Gulle Brook. O'Sullivan Comes right by the Town Hall. Eriksson What is everyone ' s feeling about that detention basin? Now they're saying that they think that building it is going to cause more problems than being there, and you tend to agree , right? Davies Yup. Eriksson Do you want to comment on that, or just let it be: O'Sullivan It looked to me like it was a drop in the bucket, I thought it was too small. Davies (Unintelligible) Gutkowski I think Jtaxry's premise -- that Uh -- we just say that concep- tually there 's too much impact on the wetland period. Uh -- because I think, if you start picking away at their little things, they're going 22 - to come back with an altered, corrected version -- but I think we ought to scrap it as it is and -- and let them start from ground zero. Eriksson Right, so what are you saying, to deny it: Gutkowski As it exists, yeah. Lane We could deny it without prejudice. Eriksson OK. Do we need anyother reason beside the impact on the wet- land is too severe? Is that enough? I 'm a little leary with court cases. Davies You've had experience with Philip Ireland -- I think if you get too wordy-- Uh -- every one leaves you open, I think. Just the impact is too great. ErikssonIs just enough? The impact on the wetlands -- on the wetlands is too severe, period? Gutkowski Then you can- always find a million reasons why, but if you narrow yourself -down, and. . . . . . Eriksson That's what I 'm saying y g (Unintelligible) specify anymore than that? O'Sullivan (Unintelligible) also the drainage out of the wetland into the brook, the runoff, the increase in runoff and. . . . . Davies That's no biggie. O'Sullivan That 's no problem? Davies No. Krahula What do you mean by impact, too much activity? Is that (unintel- ligible) Eriksson Well, just that it' s going to be a detrimental impact (Unintel- ligible - several people speaking at once) . .wetlands too much. Davies That watershed (Unintelligible - more than one person speaking at once) one hundred and some odd acres, or three hundred and some odd acres of drainage area goes into that pond for Windshire. _ �3 _ O 'Sullivan OK. (Unintelligible- several people speaking at once) . Eriksson One hundred bucks to be denied, he ' s going to love that, (Unintelligible - Mr. Davies speaking in the background, at the same time) Warren I disagree, I think he should only have to pay once if he with- drew. Haven't you ever-- Have we ever had that happen before? Murray We 've had them withdraw, but the 've never come back, so we 've never run into this before. Gutkowski Did you keep the money? Warren It's only the last year or so that we've raised it to fifty, right? Murray Ummm. Warren I think if he withdrew, I don' t think he should have to pay it twice. Moran I think if he withdrew without having come in and we didn't have to get involved with any work, but (Unintelligible - more than one person speaking at one time) for fifty bucks he could go for two years. Warren Yeah, yeah, OK. Eriksson We 've gone to SCS , etc . . . Warren I 'd forgotten about that. . Davies Incurrwd costs. Warren That's true. Eriksson (Unintelligible) we 're not doing this to make money, just to cover costs and fifty dollars sin't going to make a drop in the bucket (unintelligible) . Moran Because otherwise, as soon as it looked like there was a red flag, they'd withdraw it, and zip in a couple df weeks later wit a slight re- vision, and then as soos as you're going to veto it, pull it again, then you could go for years on a fifty dollar fee -- rediculous. Eriksson (Unintelligible) - 24 Warren I never thought of it that way, and I also had forgot how he had done the whole presentation once before. Moran Yeah. Eriksson OK. We in agreement then to deny this on the premise that the impact on the wetland is too severe? Is that where we -- the con- sensus is? O'Sullivan Um--hummmm. Eriksson Do I have a motion to that effect? Jerry? O'Sullivan So moved. Eriksson Brave, you're the next one to go Jer. Is there a second? I scared them right off (Laughter) . Murray Ben's not Secretary now, see he knows. Moran Put Ben down second (Laughter) . ErikssonDid you second,Betty? Warren Yeah. Eriksson Any discussion? All those in favor. . . All Aye. Moran Observation, it would seem to me as though if they did go to SCS with this new plan and we ougnt to ask for the written report so we have it to review individually, if (Unintelligible) we ought to have all the information before us. Lane That make sense. Davies You got it. Eriksson Well, except, isn't that looking for information after we 've already denied. Wouldn't you have to wait until they applied again and then go to. . . . Moran If they already went, and supposedly went over it, we could at least find out. They claimed the reaction, other than those three lots, was basic approval and all the problems had been resolved, except for the three lots. We don't know if that' s true or not, and obviously they'll come back again in another form. We got to have all the data we should. - 25 - Eriksson Betty said it 's here. Betty says we got a copy of it with R Moeller' s, the last page of Moeller' s report. I 'm sorry (Unintelligible) Maybe that's the original one. Warren Seventeenth of January, is that it? Eriksson That' s the original one , isn' t it? Moran There ' s an older one. O'Sullivan Was in December. Davies Fourteenth and on the seventeenth. Eriksson Those are the original ones, aren't they? Oh, no. Murray The original ones were in December. O'Sullivan January 14 th. Eriksson (Unintelligible) . . revised preliminary plan of Ireland pro- perty, ok, we do have it Jerry -- Uh-- Jack. Moran OK elimination. . . Warren I meant to ask him, but what, -- Uh -- (Unintelligible - more than one person speaking at once) shown on the map, where the test holes were, are they numbered on the map? Davies Yeah. Warren Why are they getting water at 18 inches on one? Davies Because the water was coming in on it. Warren I know, but that is not very far down. Davies The last hole they dug, it resembled minestrone soup. Warren Ummmwhat you mean. Eriksson (Unintelligible) . .we 've already reproved it, it's a fait ac- compli now. I just hope that our saying the impact on the wetlands is too .severe , is adequate. I see your point, if you start specifying, you forget something. - 26 - Gutkowski You don't specify, you leave it open to interpret that as you wish later,and we don' t really, and it's not a cop-out, because we really don't know enough about -- I would feel that -- that sort -- Uh -- approval would take intense study by this commission to be fair. I mean certainly we have always been relatively, Oh, very fair to both builders, and we 've 'tried to be fair to the Town. That one we 'd have to watch like a hawk. I 'd want a lot o'-- a lot o' thinking time on that. Davies He flagged those three lots himself. Eriksson If I were Ireland, or Uccello, whoever, at this point I 'd say I think I 'll look for someplace else to develope. You know, I would say two times and that's it. Either that, or I 'd say I 'm going to build myself a house on there -- you know, that's it, leave the rest. . O'Sullivan You could draw a road through there outside of the wetland and put houses outside of the wetlands maybe . . . Eriksson (Speaking at the same time) He could probably get four or five houses. O'Sullivan . . . a half a dozen, or so, but even then, they would have to be well placed and might still be wet. Davies It's like Bill Grace said, it' s a buck-and-a-half, a buck-seventy- five a foot. Say two hundred dollars for a road. O'Sullivan Got to be expensive houses. Davies He 's got to build six hundred feet of road just to get to the parcel. Eriksson & Warren (Unintelligible - speaking at the same time. ) O'Sullivan Got to be costly houses. Warren I still don't understand where he' s going to come in (Unintelli- gible - several persons speaking at once) . Eriksson Is there anything else to come before this (Unintelligible) body? (End of Portion of Regular Meeting Worksession Pertaining to Application NO. 220. ) _'T,-,�SO-:1 T. �jo —,� T �U,77.-Cy LT-11 E IS _On dt auv- P Februar 1983 .......... Yar_-e.......... Jarnes Luzzi , Luzzi _'Ein^ineering, presented the -plans noting that hasically the road and lot layout are the same as the pro- posal submitted prior to this. -."r. Luzzi proceeded to review the changes from the previous application. one change is the elir,,-iina- tion of one lot at the cul - de - sac, a change from 20 lots to 28. !,pother her change -v.ras the reduction of lot size for the three lots indicated on the plan. They are no,,,., 30, 000 sq. 't. , as compared L to almost double the require:'.11ent for the zone in the previous ap- plication. There is no,-,, a large open space behind these lots and adjacent to these lots which i-,,as not there before. He pointed out the area to be left as open space, noting that this alsoN ;-could not be developed and ;;rill not be part of any of the lots, large por- tion of the lots are ,-.,!ithin the wetlands and range in area from L 61, 000 sq. ft. , 66,000 so . ft. , 72, 000 sq . ft. and 51, 000 sq. ft. , - The samllest lot shun in this section of the subdivision is 37, 000 sq. ft. �r. Lane asked if '­r. Luzzi would again delineate the viej-- ............. U lands area, as-it was difficult to determine it. j',-r. Luzzi traced the wetlands area delineated b1T the heavy lines, noting the excep- 'ions of the knoll areas and the corner indicated. The three lots S'J11i c h were originally =1 in the wetlands are again 61ithin the wet- lands. Another item that %%,*as changed 'Lro,,-_-a 'he original applica- tion is the road which %,Tas slLifted fifty feet (50 ' ) to the north. ,-r. Luzzi noted the southern street line used to be the northern street line. Luzzi told that as a result of their last application, ,-r. I` 'A and imp ut from this cor.-Imission and also from SCS, they have revised the plan. SCS is basically satisfied -,,,,Tith the applicant 's -plan according to `-r. Luzzi, ,,',i'uh the exception of the three lots -i-,,ith- in the i,,,etlands, which SCS feels should not be developed. The applicants are present before T',;!A to ask peri7iiission to develop those three lots based upon their soil scientists investigation u Of this i,,,etlands. ;-r. Luzzi reminded the IWA of the report sub- mitted by Henry 1,1oeller, v7hich stated that the building that j--iould U ............ be taking place on these three lots, plus the drive,,.."Tays Plcro.Gs the '......"etlands)and road �,-,,ithin the -.;Fetl­.nd would not have an adverse �T; n�+ 11, ,� :-T (;l' .iN n TvY '17 'TIES �• _. .il:t� \J Ir L:i_V LJ iLiiiVl�� :1GET r lr i r i.Onray, ebruary 14, 1983 *e 1 . I alls entirely vlithin the 7etlands. =rs. �,riksson asked if he me ant the'T did not -,rant to build it at w11. r. Luzzi explained that they they feel it -:-could be more detrimental to the ,,etlands than if they did not build it. They have sho`an it, they can build it and it will function properly, and if the commission would rather see the reten- tion pond, their -�%iould be happir to put it in. They feel that the amount of increased runoff from this store drainage system indica- ted on the plan -;!ould be negligible co ipared to the large natural storage area located to the north of -*hem. r. Luzzi noted that hatT bales %Till be installed along the �:etlands in the areas of construction, as directed by the To-n, and it ;°Till be installed in accordance ,,,:Tith the Soil ion.ervation Hand- booh. They have shown a detail o_ t�.rpical haybale installation. Also sho,.,n is a typical detail of they way the retention ponds be designed and they will ;aaintain a depth of 2 ft. of vFater in each pond during construction so that the sediment will settle out: bhese ponds krill be cleaned periodically.,-it the end of construction and after all the vegetation has been reestablished the pipes loca- ted on the outlet pipes ;:Till be removed and the pond will then be- in to function .�.s a retention pond. They have shown the location_ of the test pits, the amount of fill that their are requesting to dace within the retlands. i_r. Lane asked how much fill ;vaill they bringing in for the three lots in the -:;etland. :r. Luzzi said he did not break it dot,jn se- oarately, it is approximately ._. 4 ft. depth of fill in an area of 50 ' „ 50 ' on each lot. 'r ,'arren noted it is with the application -- Lots ; ` 6, '7 and ; '& -- 4251 660 and 970. : r. Lane asked if this would significantly -1ter the drainage _J=tterns in the area. I1r. Luzzi explained that the drs_inage pat- tern no-:-, flo-.°:Ts south and the draina`e pattern -.;ill continue to flo in a south�%,estern pattern from these lots. They �,iill be draining the drive,eays ,because the drivet-rays i'lill be pitched back to the street, they .All drain do,�:rn into the street and into the storm drainage system and into the retention area. :. r. Lane observed SCU. 1 on al av Febru.--nir 14 1933 M 0 ge U they s hl o,,%r a drainage s.,ale that cuts across the CIL"'ID property. '.'.'hen the subdivision ,-,ras developed, the discharge 'as piped to the north and there ja-,7 C1 s no j)lace for the ;-:ester to go because this was a higher piece of land. They excavated a ditch going throu7h the CIS _P property -,.-!hich is quite deep. "'rs . Eriks-son S a under the 7 1 impression there are dr�Flinage pipes Somewhere there. ..r. Liuzzi pointed out a spot on the plan observing that there is a drainage pipe at that Point co:-.ring_ from the subdivision indicated, and also a multi-ch'aannel floe{ which he traced on the plan. There are also some drainage pipes that come off Ellington R-Load, �.,Ihich discharge L C__ -�D at the point indicated on the r.,_,ap. . On their original plan they sho"--,,ed these lots co,Ming to the rear with fan easenenll-, no--.*,r it l-,,ill be the rear :)ro*cer'L,,,,r lines, as indica-�-ed, and the other part i,�,]Lll be u part of the open space. Eriksson observed that noiv, those lots ..Ould not L.TiDact on thlose drainage iDi-oes. r, luzz- said no. .r. Luzzi noted that after discussions with the _I'In�-ineerin- -DIE-o-lu t-here s.rlll be a 150 flu. nOW that 'be given to the Town LD as part- 01" 'Che -SuIDdivil-lior_ application, ­o if there ;as any drain- a,Me that the Tom%,- �-,,ould S.,,ant to install at the location indicated the- -..Vould have �n outlet. _rs on z2:ed whose idea -ere the cul-de-sacs. I.r. T_UZZi Co e-:.,,Ilained that -..,hen the zone change made on this piece of pro- nerty, at that point the FL'ZC E,aid the%, did not want another en- tranceL oniv left one en- on ��llin,7ton 7,oad at this point, so that -I-_'I uzance to the property Inc that -was fro,:., the point he indicated on The plan. ..because of the shape of the 'nro-oer-L -T there i- no other �r that 1rou can bring a road in and out. 4 t,e r discussiong, the u 1, L-1 C-;. -t`ro-;_-)osa i tuil tuli-is Eng-inear-4. 'here 4 a su-tidivision pro-Ld u _L ­=cd to the north ol�' this -, r000sal. ''he road ?Jointed out on the u basicall r lines up h Q, t U ' e road nro-oosed 'here, so file cul­de--ac referre - o on the l a 4.uej-.;-20rarv, one. _:ors. .,,-,'riI-asson as-'ed if ..,r. Ucce-', -Io and ...r. _LrelanC; o-vin the land to 'he south. -,-'r. T,u,zj a` developed.ol served ", -uU all developed.ID that T)avies no- e u ha t 1 as -and -`,stat u es. X. Lzzi ex-plained. ' t u -.7 r f -oiz-ided develo-.,,)erz land star' ........... ui, --. I � - L u unis piece o property is surn u .......... -ri -. sson asli:ed -,Jhat rs. i1jr, pt 11-ie oint he indicat u ed on -L'ne an. ­R, u h e oint- 0 thile cul-de-2—c the ­roi,erty -as gal­e7.d,! -7.evelope,:! DT T! ILI onClay _'a ge Lu,,-i -_X­)laine6', that- the cui-Cie-sacS 1.1 .ve ilotus off tijen't jhich e a,.-7 a-v fro-,, the wetlands, one of 'h - e cul-.,- --ac .-!il- beeXtendel U at q_ future date. I_rs . Elri_ks son observed th,2,JtU it .-.Fas jus-L, to 7ive h e, access to I-ore lots. LI X. ',"oran as1ked if and fill i--!ere reouired for the roadway. r. Luzzi noted for roadwa-,i- construction there is a total of 4010 11 U I 'r cu. yds . T-r. ;--oran :7;s' ed if it changed r,,,-.uch. 1-r. Luzzi said no, they moved the road further 50 ft. her to the north, �'.rhich still left 1 - U it in -....etlands, but �,vhat it did is it gave access to the lots 1:'Nrithout affecting the ,-,,etlands . The road. cons ruction feel on the t C.:1 - edge of the �-,,,etlands, rather than fifty feet into the ,-%,etlands . I'_rs. 'i'larren as.-zed ,,.,here Y.,ill the road intersect -,A,-ith Labe 'St. ir. Luzzi explained that Abby -.`Lrd. Ext. has presently been built as far as the subdivision that was approved directly to the north of the applicants. The applicant is proposin!7 to extend Abby Rd. straight doL-M to the point- he indicated on the plan, then make a left to en L ter their subdivision. - r. Da ' Davies observed it -.1rould be about 600' South of %, indslnire I i-rs. 3ri-1:sson reminded the applicant that there ,-as a 5)0 a-op plication fee still outstandinc-, on this is applic.ation. ' _r. Ireland had talked ,,.,ith the A,-: ency secretary regarding this iteir.,-i, and the D 0 - U secretar-v was goinn� to consult vFith ti-le Chairr-!.-�n, Z_rs. Eriks-son U -_1 J. for clarification. zat he had as'.,l-ed �-!a:, that the for,!--e-r applica- tion fee v'7oul6 be re dated,. or applied to +­hlis- application, and since he had not tallil-led again prior to this ni2etin7, it had not been clarified. 1-11e is prepared to submit the fee at this tire, if it is recuired. ' told '...r. Ireland that it ,--ias her interpretatinn, rs. i.11. U U whic]-i he Yeas 1-ore than welcome to discuss t;,ith the Agency, is, th7it .L each application requires a Pee, and the -fact that the applicant had -i.-jit'ndra'.-,,rn it 1,.,as of their choosing. The A!-ency does not rebate ffees . Once -11-,hey are received, the,- are turned over to the To,­n. It was their ontion to -,Aith1dra7.V and resubmit, a- nd each application re- quires an apolica-LL-1-1-on fee. ' .......... 1-Te­ ­D.1,.)_1ic­-+ion .7L,%0. 221 To,,*,,,n Mouth indsor/Public -Quilding Co,�li,,iission Present, for the ./Ille,\e-ntation -.-!ere --oward �itts, Chai rman, 7­17! J. UU -7 A r y t 1iv a I 0_0 a G i 2.t e__7 i co? -te-7 , n U -Z on e a--,-, L­r-D a -1;e "..-iotion L 1-- :7, r e, Lp ne J_O`i ce sha x T I S;I-S'_i G-- U O'Lurn a! naui".ar on 0 heir 1.1;cc e 1110 a n C� 1-1-e --a-n 3 u i 1 rf�e_r s inc ---,'he Azenc-v discus-ed ti - -4- _L! co.�-icerns 0 u s n the e-V nn thou In e e n on that t__ not be v Is 1 o,.,*)e6 T rioter t c fni j.") Cu. llfaS -0-f be U, e it -as --ore C 011C er, a u-Ln.-,, -: o _ Uuy. al f =1"e:zfc, it to be v1,7,ble i _._O In a v t c 0 she e -va---i u e t o b -u L, 1 on a,-, n o t t]1 e o po e ' genc-r ,�,ere concorned -it' t-'ae O-J7' Concern -.vit-lh `6"lie _LXp�.ct- on the !et-la n,-- ti concern it n__ iat it wa- too ' n th,-, -re- --!as -1so ­Lcussion, 3 7 C Y!c'? th!7t oan On1v addresc] L,o -L-.h e u. I " f-D e a -I.-,ot_Lon t-o 17 ic-'ion - c os a 13-U u I v-n 0 2)2 C 2 L,I -L,--nd _Suiiler�_%, _nc -7 U_ `Ion,, C L jeC U .­O 7 e , i_o , �.ai 6 eni ed on c 0 e t,1 n!f; e r;= e c on d r o T rio-' -hely coul(�, ch,-:m-a UC ­11 u e^e wouic n o n r e s,e i n r un 0 2- 2' r e 'Oa' n- no fur t I i e 1p o C) jo� Sc. 7.1 0 f ar.,-r)1 0' ,O+ 0­1 +0 0 7,7'e C 1'. c IL o I -f S C."Is on -2' 0 �)_-ie 0 .-n o _­,_Z:D.L3, C �UJL zlo-y! f'-)-.- cp aci 1 i-a n c a ie UJ- er 3 e on on -he C, -OU 4 UG �T t e i2l,__ or • 01 .L L, 0 0 1 c -1)U anc ............. 4 --.n, C) M1 11 u .011 r 1,007r- 4,:" __L Jar JAN 2 81983 SOILS CONSULTING SERVICE.� INTENSIVE SOIL SURVEY HENRY �7 T 7 rT� c� 159 HULLS HILL ROAD HENRY T. �OELLER � � 4 F- SOUTHBURY, CONNECTICUT 06488 PHONE: ('203) 264.6977 PEOOLOGIST (SOIL SCIF_NTIST) AND CONSULTANT SOILS LEGEND FOR PROPERTY IN SOUTH I'INDSOR, CONNECTICUT UPLAND SOILS---- LoA Ludlow fine sandy loam,_0_to 3 percent slopes. Moderately well drained soil. Fine sandy loam over a hardpan in places. iVeA Wapping silt loam, 0 to 3—percent slopes. Moderately well drained soils. Silt loans and fine sandy Ioams over a hardpan in places. Inclusions of sand and gravel and loose till throughout mapping units. WkA Wethersfield fine sandy loam, 0 to 3 percent slopes. Well drained soils. Deeper and coarser textured than normal for the Wethersfield soils. Inclusions of sand and gravel in places. Very stony in places . A hardpan may or may not be present in some areas. WkB Wethersfield fine sandy loam, 3 to 8 percent slopes. Same as described above. WETLAND SOILS---- WcA Walpole 1_oam, 0 to 2percent slopes . Poorly drained soils. Stony with inclusions of till in places . Higher in elevation than very poorly drained soils. PmA Shallow muck. Very poorly drained soils. Approximately 16 to 25 inches Of muck over a thin layer_ of silt over sand. Underlying substratum has inclusions ` of silt layers . SbA Saco silt loam, 0 to 2 percent slopes . Very poorly drained mineral soils . Has a muck surface in places . Co.is_sts of layers of silt loam and fine sandy loam over a sand in places. SeA Scarboro loam, 0 to 2 percent stones. Very poorly, drained mineral soil. Has amuck surface in places . Consists of a. thin surface layer of silt loam or fine sandy loam over coarse sand. Sand substratum may have inclusions of fine sand. and. silt loam in places. Inclusions of till i.n places also. 159 HULLS HILL ROAD I - SOUTHBURY, CONNECTICUT 06488 PHONE: (203) 264.6977 ON-SITE SOILS INVE.STIrATiOhl I SOIL MAPPING I "WETLAND" IDENTIFICATION I SOILSI INFORMATION AND CONSULTATION � I SUPPLEMENTARY REPORT OF PROPERTY ON ELLINGTON ROAD----2 HTM 12/6/82 Because sanitary sewers and water is available, there is no need for septic systems which are greatly dependant on the nature of the soils. Thus, there is also no need to fill in large a. eas or use large areas for septic systems and reserve areas. Only the house itself and some yard area is all that is required for the homesite. With the construction of homes, driveways, and roads, there will be an increase of runoff due to impervious surfaces. Lawns also have a higher runoff rate than forest land. The nearly level to gently sloping surfaces reduces the erosion hazard consi- derably. The distance to the wetlands is also relatively- short. Thus, the water cannot accumulate high volumns along with high velocity before being dissipated by the wetlands. The impervious surfaces however will be less than 20 percent and cannot affect the water table of either the wetlands or the uplands to any significant extent. The water table is maintained by a much larger watershed than the property itself. Water can still percolate down through more than 80 percent of the soils. During a storm the runoff will cause slightly higher water levels in the wetlands due to the impervious surfaces . However, the amount of increase is insignificant to the normal fluctuations of the water table in the wetlands. Any increase will also be for very brief periods and thus, will not affect the vegetation nor basic soil moisture regime of the wetlands. Excess water will still be free to flow off the property as it presently does. Drainage has been provided to maintain the free flow of water off the property. The only change is a detention basin to meter the water into the stream that flows off the property. In the existing condition there is a poorly defined stream channel in the area of the proposed drain and detention basin. However the basic direction of surface eater flow is maintained and the water levels will not be changed. Some wetland soils will have to be filled for either a road crossin g, homesite, or yard area. Most filling will take place on the Walpole soils which are poorly drained and slightly higher in elevation. These soils do not contribute to the water storage capacity of the wetlands for most storms. Any displacement of water storage capacity for a severe storm would be spread over a large remaining wetland area. Any increase of water level due to the -filling would not even be measureable. The water storage capacity of the wetlands has not been significantly changed. The detention pond has also minimized the loss. The detention pond reduces the peak flow into the stream off the property and also helps to prevent erosion which presently occurs in the Saco soils near the detention basin. Overall the subdivision has left most of the large areas of very poorly drained soils intact. The direction of water movement has not changed. -Due to the soils, topography, and slopes of the land, the amount of increased runoff is minimal and will not change the moisture regime of the wetlands nor affect the vegetation. If there are any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. RespE ctfull.y submitted , r IIenryjf� Moeller SOILS CONSULTING SERVICE ( ; INTENSIVE SOIL SURVEY HENRYT. g� rT T r�'7 3 !� 159 HULLS HILL ROAD NR 1, MOELLER �a (yN� r� SOUTHBURY, CONNECTICUT 06488 PHONE: (203) 264-6977 r: PEDOLOGIST (SOIL SCIENTIST) AND CONSULTANT `-I_„� December 6, 1982 SUPPLEMENTARY SOILS REPORT ON PROPERTY FOR PHILLIP IRELAND ON ELLINGTON ROAD The first soils report is entitled ON-SITE SOILS INVESTIGATION OF PROPERTY FOR PHILLIP IRELAND ON ELLINGTON ROAD, October 29, 1982. The first soils report describes in detail all soils mapped on the property and the general characteristics of the wetland soils on the property. The principal purpose of this soils report is to assess the impact of the property development to the wetlands on the property and downstream adjacent to the property. The concerns are the water tables and surface water movements. The entire property is nearly level to gently sloping. The wetlands occupy the level depressions w1ii.ch essentially exposes the water table. The underlying material consists of till. and outwash deposits . Some of the material is slowly permeable and other material is permeable throughout. Due to the nearly level slopes and the topo- graphy, the water from direct precipitation and runoff from adjoining properties is trapped and moves very slowly. The ,rater moves downward Ito the water -table either directly through the soil or as runoff :Groin the soils at slightly higher elevations, Any excess surface Boater than moves very slowly through the wetlands downstream. At the northwest corner of the property the water reaches a well defined stream ! ' channel which flows to another wetland north of the property. Part of this we is on the east end of the property which is known as Parcel "A" and consists of a shallow muck soil. 'The movement of ground water was not i.oithin the scope of this investigation. It is assumed that there is some ground wa.ler movement but it does not change the soil i_nterpr.etations of basic wetland functions. The surface water basically flows from the south to the north through the wetlands on the property. Due to the nearly level surfaces, the restricted outlets, and -the dense vegetation, the wetlands function as water detention basins. They slow the runoff from the up- lands and pond the water during heavy rainfall. However, only the very, poorly drained soils are subject to normal ponding or flooding. The poorly drained soils are at a slightly higher elevation and are saturated due primarily to capillary action. The 1'17alpole soils are poorly drained. In t ile propose.(] development: the property will be developed in two stages. Parcel IIBII will be completed first. It .is proposed to put a road through both parcels . The road goes southeast through as much upland as possible and then turns east into a wetland. The reason for this turn is to avoid a future intersection with the five corners. Homesites will be built along both sides of the road. In planning the property, the wetlands were avoided as much as possible for the houses themselves and immediate yard area.. The size of the lots were determined on the basis of minimum impact to the wetlands for necessary fi.l_l:i_ng. 159 HULLS HILL ROAD SOUTHBURY, CCNNECTICUT 06488 I PHONE: '203) 264-6977 ON-SITE SOILS INVESTIGATION I Solt_ MAPPING ''WETLAND" IPFNTIFICA'rI0II SOILS INFORMATION AND CONSULTATION I I i J�[17jQ$ J, axt CONSULTING ENGINEER LAND SURVEYOR SUBDIVISIONS 412 WEST AVON ROAD, AVON, CONNECTICUT 06001 SURVEYS PHONE 673-0446 SITE PLANNING LAND EVALUATION January 12, 1983 DRAINAGE STUDIES SANITARY Fill to be placed within wetlands for the purpose of lot development. Lot # . 1 25 CY Lot # 4 15 CY s Lot # 6 1425 CY Lot # 7 660 CY Lot # 8 970 CY Lot # 9 350 CY Lot # 15 260 CY Lot # 26 200 CY Lot # 27 415 CY � Total Fill 3,320 CY '�i a 1 Test Hole #1 0" -- 8;:1 forest litter/topsoil IIrf - 2411 clay 24" - 80" reddish glacial till with small stones water @ 60t1 Test Hole #2 0" - 8" forest litter/top soil 8" - 20" s1,A-_,„tail, brownish sandy soil 20" - 52" 1 -_ddish course sand with stones 5211 — 6011 f'- - 6011 - 82" : • delis h course sand with stone r,o water Test Hole #r; 0" - 12" top :oil 12" - 1811 �;ubsoll, brownish sand If J_871 — ..84" reddish glacial till with stone water >eepag @ 64" Test Hole #4 0" - 8" Forest litter/top soil grr _ 36f1 clay 3611 - 84T1 redLt_.sh glacial till with small and large stones seepage @ 18" ,rater seepage @ 36" Test Hole #5 0" _ 6" Forest litter/tap soil 6t1 - 18i1 c"t ay 18" - 8211 red glacial till with stone water @ 82": Test Hole #6 0i1 12" forest litter/top soil. 12" - 26" subsoil, sand/gravel 261t - 11011 I_> avelAie.t 4011 8411 z,eddish clay, wet some. stone water seepage @ 11� water seepage @ 8411 J'�• United States Soil 340 Broad Street /; `•. Department of Conservation ` Agriculture Service Windsor CT 06095 Phone 688-4946 January 14, 1983 TO: Hartford County Soil_ and Water Conservation District FOR: Constance Eriksson, Chairman Inland Wetlands Agency - Town of South Windsor RE: Ireland Property _ Ellington Road At the request of Air. Phillip Ir_eland, a meeting was held on January 6, 1983, to discuss our report of 12/28/82. Several modifications to the site plan were discussed and they have been incorporated into a revised plan dated January 12, 1902. Some modifications were to decrease activity in the wetland soils on the site. Specifically they= addressed paragraph #2 under evaluation of the December 28th report. The road has been .relocated and several lot sizes and home locations have been adjusted. Y`lso, several lots have been eliminated. However, there is still planned construction on lots 6, 7 and 8 all of which are in wetland soils. - The stormwater from half of parcel "A" is now planned to be routed into the retention area on parcel "B". However, the runoff :From the other half of ` parcel "A" is still. being discharged into the wetland soil on lot 14. Those comments in our December_ 28t.h report regarding erosion and sedimcn4 'controls should still-:be addressed. This would include paragraphs 1, 3, 4 and 5. Paragraph 2 concerns have been answered and the planned modifications appear to realistically provide for a yard area around the homes. In summary, there still is some fill activity in wetlands and absence of an erosion and sediment control plan. If further_ assistance is needed, please call, Sincerely, Rob Cochran Soil Conservationist CC: A'� Bowen Davies, Deputy Town Engineer_ , To-,,, of South Windsor Luzzi Engineering & Surveying, 412 West Avon Rd, Avon CT 06001 (�qy The Soil Conservation Service _ SCS-AS-i l ! s an aoency of the 10-79 Rainfall Length Slope Pipe Cap. Drainage Area Time Discharge of of Size of Mean ! Velocity Flowing Manhole Station Intensity Q Pipe Pipe ripe /elt�city � CO A C 8CA ICA .8 t � fi i Ful I i ; ) N a. 'q a. i Acre, Acres Acres Mins. Mims. In. lHr. C.FS. Ft. Ft./ Ft. In. F.?S. . C_fS. > a 1 Z D,ly C3-� D, 11 b.11 S• Q. M -1 rn rn b �,i � I71 I i , 2,1 i O = M m i o M Z •5.,g ),57 i o 1 i � 1 I Cu Rainfall Length Slope Pipe Cap. 7, Drainage Area Time Discharge of of Size of Mean i o Intensity Flowing Manhole Station Q Pipe Pipe Pipe - Velocity Fui.i � 8 A C ACA ICA .8 t It i � � I hlo. fin. Acres. Acres Acres , Mins. Mins. in. /Hr. C.FS. Ft. Ft./Ft, in. F.-PS. . C_F S. , � b � v > � I 13 15 �,Ig b. . �l� 0,32 , 1 `f Ij 6 ,1Z 6 .3 o,lo O,lb � I � (n 71 y t7 , , , _ Il , I , s m 4 Z I , -� i { I Rainfall Length Slope Pipe Cap. Drainage Area Time Discharge Size of Mean ' Intensity g of of Mowing i o Manhole Station Q Pipe Pipe Pipe Velocity -c A C 8CA 5'CA L1 t Lt ► Full iq o. At o. Acres Acras Acres Nlins. �tlns. ln. %Hr. C.F.S. Pt. rt./ Ft. In. � F.PS. C_FS. b o I � I I i I � I � t I I � � I I I � I , � I I , I i I I I { I � I I { I I � I ' i { I � I I I , I I I I ' c In M I O � p I ; i Uccello and Ireland Builders, Inca 748 Old Main Street Rocky Hill, Connecticut 06067 January 18 1983 i Mrs. Constance Eriksson, Chairman Inland Wetlands Agency Town of South Windsor 1540 Sullivan Ave South Windsor CT 06074 i E Dear Nirs. Eriksson: I would like to request that our Inland Wetlands application NO. 217 proposed residential subdivision be withdrawn at this time. AS a result of a meetingheld on January 6,1983 with the Hartford County Soil and I-later Conservation District several modifications to our site plan will be _ incorporated into a revised plan for a new submission. We feel that we can address the concerns of the district, resulting in a reduction of soil erosion and sedimentation into the wetlands. ry Truly Yours, Uccello and Ireland Builders Inc. cc: A. B. Davies, Deputy Town Engineer �wp � �OV) Sf, �U 1540 SULLIVAN AVENUE • SOUTH WINDSOR. CONN. 06074 oe•co�'�w AREA CODE 203/644-2511 February 17, 1983 Uccello and Ireland Builders, Inc: 748 Old Main Street Rocky Hill, Connecticut 06067 CERTIFIED I.AIL Gentlemen: At the February 14, 1983 meeting, the South Windsor Inland- Wetlands Agency denied without prejudice your Application NO. 220 for a residential subdivision on property located on Ellington Road and Foster Street, South Windsor, Connecticut. The proposal was denied on the basis that the impact on the wetlands is too severe. Very truly yours, nstance Eris son, Chairman INLAND '�V ETLANDS AGENCY T0�'�?I-i OF SOUT i ';:.-)OIt CE: chm CC: A. .Bowen Davies, Deputy Town Engineer Charles Enes, Town Clerk Richard J. Sartor, Town .=anager Edward F. Havens, i ayor i.Iarshall <<'ontana, Chairperson PZC 'Jayne C. Gerlt, Town Attorney Richard Ryan, Town Council Liaison Thomas D'Auria, Building Official Peter De P,'Iallie, Director of Planning Peter Bortolan, Chairman EDC James Luzzi, Luzzi Engineering LOW Offices GEORGE H.GILMAN,JR. HYDE S JOSLYN FERDINAND P.CAVALIER GILMAN $ MARKS 1B7B-IBa3 HYDE,JOSLYN 6 GILMAN ALBERT J.MARKS,JR. 1893-1697 R ROBERT H.NATHAN One Riverview _;quare HUNGERFORO,HYDE,JOSLYN 6 GILMAN THOMAS A.BAILEY 1697-1909 JAM ES W.SN ER MAN East Hartford, Connecticut 06108 HYDE,JOSLYN,GILMAN 6 HUNGERFORD 1909-t919 BERKELEY COX,JR. (203) 28.2-0.301 HYDE,JOSLYN,GILMAN 6 MARKS ROBERT S.CAREY,JR. 1919-1920 RICHARD A HEALEY TUTTLE,GILMAN 6 MARKS 1920-1021 October 14, 1983 Re: Uccello and Ireland Builders, Inc. vs. Town of South Windsor Gentlemen: This will advise that the above action has been withdrawn and is no longer pending. I enclose a copy of the withdrawal of action filed with the Clerk's Office and stamped by the Clerk showing that the original is on file. Very y yours, r Robert H. Nathan RHN/cjc Enclosure Docket No. . CV-83-0281461S Return Date :• •r UCCELLO AND IRELAND BUILDERS?• INC. . . , , , • • , . . SUPERIOR (First Named Plaintiff) (Court) •... HARTFORD-NEW BRITAIN_ JUDICIAL MSTUC HARTFORD . . . .. va. . ,. .(Gownty, District or�G.d.) TOWN OF SOUTH WINDSOR QCrTQ& .14., .l9$. . .. . (First Named Defendant) (Date) WITHDRAWAL This case is withdrawn as to all defendants without costs to any party. This case is withdrawn as to the defendant . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . .... .... . . . only, tka' t fists• The 1 Complaint v� s ❑ Counterclaim Gross ComplaintCP r ❑ . . . .. . . . . .. . . . .. . . . <=� (Insert Other Pleading Being Withdrawn) in the above entitled action is hereby withdrawn. Gi & PlaintifF ,�--� Its UCrELLO. . AND. .IBELAND.BIJ.ZLDM, .INC. ; By . . Attorney Robert H. Nathan By .. .. . . .. . Attorney . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : By . . . . . .. . . . . . . . ... ... . . . . . .. . . . . . . .. ... . . .. . .Attorney Defendant ... . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . : By . . . . . . .. Attorney. . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : By . . . . . . .. . .. .. .. . . .. . . .. .. .. .. . . ..... ...... . Attorney ... . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .. . . .. . . . . . . . ... . . . . . . . . . . .. . : By .. . .. . . . . .. .. .... .. .. . .. . . . . . . . .. .. .... ... . Attorney X:pril 81 1983 Paul Smith, attorney Please- :De aware there .,,-,as an an-placation sum itted prior to t',Ii application and it was withdrawn by the applicants. _ I have not included any raterials regarding that application,only materials pertaining to the application denied. If you wish copies of those materials, let the Zigency know. C. •iurray, Recordi Secretary �D.N N Sf4 o 1540 SULLIVAN AVENUE • SOUTH WINDSOR, CONN. 06074 SOR•CO AREA CODE 203/644-2511 Please reply to: Gerlt & Smith P.O. Box 559, 435 Buckland Road South Windsor, CT 06074 March 24, 1983 Ms. Constance Eriksson Chairperson Inland-Wetlands Agency 1540 Sullivan Avenue South Windsor, CT 06074 Re: Uccello and Ireland Builders, Inc. V. Town of South Windsor Dear Ms. Eriksson: As you probably are aware, Uccello and Ireland Builders have filed an appeal against the decision of the Inland-Wetlands Agency. It will be necessary for us to file a record of the appeal, which should include the application, supporting exhibits, transcripts of any public hearings, correspondence, and minutes of any meetings at which the application was discussed, as well as the legal notices and decision of notice, which were published with regard to this application. All these documents should be sumbitted with an appropriate certification by the secretary of the commission, that they are true and accurate copies of the originial documents. Such a certification should also be attached to the transcript. If you have any problems or questions in regard to these matters, please don't hesitate to contact me. Thank you for your time and cooperation in this matter. Sincerely, Paul W. Smith Attorney at Law PWS:mrl